Owner-reported complaints naming the driver-assistance system, filed with NHTSA
Data refreshed
Driver assistance reportsComplaints are reports submitted to NHTSA by owners and drivers. NHTSA does not verify most reports before publishing them, and a complaint does not establish that a defect exists. Volume is influenced by how many of a vehicle were sold, how long it has been on the road, and how much attention an issue has received.
20
Latest Jul 10, 2017
Share of all reportsThis category as a share of every owner report on file for this model year. One report can name more than one component, so the categories overlap.
5%
of 404 total
Crash or fire reportedReports in this category whose submitter recorded that a crash or a fire occurred. The reporter's own answer on the NHTSA form, not a verified finding.
4
Injuries or deaths reportedTotals the submitters entered on their own reports in this category. Not verified by NHTSA and not a casualty statistic.
2
What this page shows
Reports naming forward-collision avoidance, lane keeping, back-over prevention, cruise control and related electronic driver-assistance systems. Every record below is an owner-reported complaint about the 2004 Ford Ranger submitted to NHTSA — not a confirmed defect, not a recall and not a manufacturer bulletin. 20 reports on file name it.
Complaints are reports submitted by owners and drivers to NHTSA. They are not verified and do not establish that a defect exists.
Owner reports naming driver-assistance
Shown in the owner’s own words, exactly as filed
Driver assistanceEngineFuel system
Filed Jul 10, 2017
WAS DRIVING AND SUDDENLY, MY VEHICLE STARTED TO LOSE POWER. WAS VERY SCARY BECAUSE IT WAS AT NIGHT. ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON AND POWER WAS LOST. PULLED OFF FREEWAY INTO GAS STATION. CHECKED FLUIDS, ETC.. UPON TRYING TO LEAVE, VEHICLE WAS SPUTTERING WITH NO COMPRESSION. I DID NOT THINK I WAS GOING TO MAKE IT HOME. AFTER A FEW MINUTES, I TRIED AGAIN, THIS TIME GIVING VEHICLE MORE GAS. IT SEEMED TO DO A LITTLE BETTER. BUT, EVERY TIME I HAD TO SLOW DOWN OR STOP FOR A STOP SIGN OR TRAFFIC LIGHT, VEHICLE WAS SPUTTERING AND ACTING LIKE IT WAS GOING TO STALL OUT. WAS VERY NERVE RACKING, AS I WAS AFRAID OF BEING REAR ENDED BY CARS THAT WERE BEHIND ME. NOW EVERY TIME I SLOW DOWN TO WHERE VEHICLE IS IN IDLE, IT ACTS LIKE IT IS GOING TO STALL OUT ON ME, WHICH MAKES ME VERY NERVOUS. HAD A MECHANIC INSTALL NEW PLUGS, NEW INJECTOR, COIL PACKAGE AND VEHICLE IS STILL DOING BADLY AND RUNNING VERY ROUGH. ENGINE LIGHT STILL COMES ON AFTER HAVING ALL THESE NEW PARTS INSTALLED. MECHANIC ALSO RECOMMENDED USING A GAS ADDITIVE AND FILLING TANK WITH PREMIUM GAS, WHICH I DID. STILL RUNNING ROUGH. UPON FURTHER RESEARCH, HAVE FOUND OUT THAT FORD RANGERS, YEARS 2004 THROUGH 2006 ARE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. MY VEHICLE ONLY HAS 66,362 MILES ON IT AND I HAVE KEPT MAINTAINED AT ALL TIMES. FORD HAS KNOWN ABOUT THIS BUT HAS NOT DONE A RECALL YET. I FEEL THAT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE AND THAT THERE SHOULD BE A RECALL ON THESE VEHICLES. EITHER I WILL HAVE TO BUY A NEW ENGINE OR A NEW VEHICLE, WHICH I CAN NOT AFFORD. FORD NEEDS TO RECALL AND PAY FOR WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO FIX THIS PROBLEM, AS THEY WERE AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM AND HAVE DONE NOTHING ABOUT IT. I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR NEW ENGINE OR NEW VEHICLE, WHEN MY 2004 RANGER HAS LOW MILEAGE AND HAS BEEN WELL MAINTAINED THE WHOLE TIME THAT I HAVE HAD IT. IT IS THE 3.0 VULCAN ENGINE. PLEASE HELP.
NHTSA ID
11003936
Incident
Jul 2, 2017
Mileage
66,330 mi
Driver assistanceFuel system
Filed Jul 9, 2016
AFTER SHORT DRIVE, AND SHUTDOWN ENGINE WOULD CRANK BUT NOT START. TOWED TO DEALERSHIP. NEXT DAY TRUCK STARTED RIGHT UP. DEALER COULD FIND NO ISSUES. SEVERAL WEEKS AND 2000 MILES LATER, PROBLEM OCCURRED AGAIN. FOUND FUEL INERTIA SWITCH ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR MELTED. FELL APART WHEN REMOVING. PURCHASED NEW SWITCH AND ELECTRICAL HARNESS CONNECTOR PIGTAIL. FORTUNATELY FAILURE OCCURRED AFTER STOPPING AND SHUTTING DOWN. COULD CAUSE A TERRIBLE ACCIDENT IF FAILURE OCCURRED AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS. SOMETHING IS CAUSING AN OVERHEAT CONDITION IN THIS SWITCH/CONNECTOR.
NHTSA ID
10883723
Incident
Jul 3, 2016
Mileage
98,000 mi
Driver assistanceElectricalExterior lighting
Filed Nov 10, 2014
ON 4 NOVEMBER 2014 I WAS REFERENCING THE CURRENT AIR BAG ISSUE WITH FORD VEHICLES. WHILE REVIEWING CURRENT RECALL ON 04 RANGERS I NOTICED NHTSA RECALL #11V3520000> THE DESCRIPTION OF THE VEHICLES MALFUNCTIONS ACCURATELY DESCRIBES A SAME ISSUE I AM CURRENTLY HAVING WITH MY RANGER.IE, WHEN SHIFTING FROM P TO D OR D TO R A FUSE WILL BLOW CAUSING MY TURN SIGNAL, BRAKE LIGHTS, AND CRUISE CONTROL TO BECOME INOPERATIVE. I CALLED MY LOCAL FORD DEALER SERVICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE ISSUE AND WAS TOLD THERE WERE NO RECALL NOTICES FOR MY VEHICLE VIN NUMBER. I'M WONDERING IF THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH THE RECALL VIN DATABASE OR IF THE PARAMETERS SHOULDN'T BE EXPANDED TO COVER MORE APPLICABLE VEHICLES. IN ADDITION THERE WAS A RECALL FOR THE SAME YEAR AND MAKE VEHICLE AS MINE YET THE SERVICE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T SHOW ANY RECALLS FOR MY PARTICULAR VIN. *TR
NHTSA ID
10653796
Incident
Nov 10, 2014
Driver assistance
Filed Jun 3, 2011
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 FORD RANGER. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE VEHICLE WOULD INTERMITTENTLY SURGE FORWARD WHILE DRIVING AT VARIOUS SPEEDS. THE FAILURE ALSO OCCURRED WHEN THE CRUISE CONTROL WAS ENGAGED. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS IN WHICH THEY WERE UNABLE TO DIAGNOSE THE FAILURE. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 77,000 AND THE CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 80,000. UPDATED 07/20/11*LJ THE DEALER REPLACED THE CRUISE CONTROL SWTICH. UPDATED 02/06/12
NHTSA ID
10404291
Incident
Jan 1, 2010
Mileage
77,000 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Jul 12, 2010
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS 2004 FORD RANGER. THE CONTACT WAS DRIVING APPROXIMATELY 60 MPH WITH THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL STUCK IN AN OPEN POSITION. THE BRAKE PEDAL WAS APPLIED NUMEROUS TIMES WITHOUT A RESPONSE. IMMEDIATELY, THE GEAR SELECTOR WAS SHIFTED INTO THE NEUTRAL POSITION. THE VEHICLE CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE. THE ANTI-THEFT LOCK WARNING LIGHT INDICATOR ILLUMINATED, FOLLOWED BY A LOSS OF POWER STEERING. THE VEHICLE FINALLY CAME TO A COMPLETE STOP AFTER REPEATED PRESSURE WAS APPLIED TO THE BRAKE PEDAL. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER WHO STATED THAT THE FAILURE WAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED; HOWEVER, THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE WAS DISABLED AND REMOVED FROM THE VEHICLE. THE CONTACT WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY HAZARD REGARDING THE DEFECT. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 149,978. UPDATED 09/28/10. *LJ
NHTSA ID
10342618
Incident
Jun 18, 2010
Mileage
149,978 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Feb 6, 2009
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 FORD RANGER. IN AUGUST OF 2007, THE CONTACT RECEIVED A RECALL NOTICE FOR THE VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL. THE DEALER DID NOT RECEIVE THE PARTS FROM THE MANUFACTURER TO REPAIR HIS VEHICLE. EACH TIME THE CONTACT CALLS THE DEALER, HE IS INFORMED THAT THE PARTS ARE STILL UNAVAILABLE. IN JANUARY OF 2009, HE RECEIVED ANOTHER RECALL NOTICE, WHICH STATED THAT HE DID NOT COMPLY WITH THE FIRST NOTICE. ON FEBRUARY 4, 2009, THE DEALER STATED THAT THE PARTS WERE AVAILABLE FOR THE REPAIR. THE NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID NUMBER WAS UNKNOWN. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 80,000.
NHTSA ID
10257693
Incident
Aug 5, 2007
Mileage
80,000 mi
AirbagsDriver assistance
Filed Sep 18, 2008
I HAVE A 2004 FORD RANGER P/U THAT HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL. FROM TIME TO TIME (AND GETTING MORE FREQUENT)THE CRUISE WILL NOT WORK AND WHEN THIS HAPPENS ALSO THE HORN IS INOPERABLE. I KNOW THAT FORD HAS A RECALL FOR CERTAIN VEHICLES WITH CRUISE PROBLEMS , BUT MY TRUCK VIN DOES NOT FALL UNDER THOSE BEING RECALLED. I CONTACTED FORD CUSTOMER SERVICE ,THEY INFORMED ME TO TAKE IT TO A DEALER AS IT WASN'T COVERED.I CALLED A LOCAL DEALER SERVICE AND THE SERVICE MANAGER SAID TO ME OH YEAH WE GET THAT PROBLEM AND 9 OUT OF 10 TIMES IT'S A SPRING IN THE STEERING COLUMN THAT WRAPS THE WIRES AND ALONG WITH NO CRUISE OR HORN YOU ALSO LOSE YOUR DRIVER AIR BAG PROTECTION!!!NOW THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM,AS HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU KNOW TEST THEIR HORN BEFORE DRIVING OUT THE DRIVE AND FOR THAT MATTER REALLY HOW MANY PEOPLE EVEN USE CRUISE CONTROL ON A REGULAR BASIS? I KNOW IN MY CASE THAT IF IT DOES GO IN CRUISE AND I AM GOING DOWN THE NYS THRUWAY AND HAVE TO TAP MY BRAKE FOR SLOW TRAFFIC AND THEN TAP RESUME AFTER TRAFFIC CLEARS AND CRUISE DOES NOT FUNCTION THAT TELLS ME MY HORN ISN'T GOING TO WORK AND MY LIFE COULD BE IN DANGER IF I WAS INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT BECAUSE MY AIR BAG IS ALSO INOPERABLE. *TR
NHTSA ID
10242764
Incident
Jun 1, 2008
Mileage
55,000 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Mar 6, 2008
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2004 FORD RANGER. HE RECEIVED A SAFETY RECALL NOTIFICATION IN AUGUST 2007. EVERY MONTH THE DEALER STATED THAT THE PART WOULD BE AVAILABLE THE FOLLOWING MONTH. THE PURCHASE DATE WAS 04/2000. THE CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 114,000.
NHTSA ID
10220289
Incident
Aug 15, 2007
Mileage
114,000 mi
Driver assistanceElectrical
Filed May 18, 2006
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE THE VEHICLE WAS AT AN IDLE, THE ENGINE REVVED AND LURCHED FORWARD. THE VEHICLE WAS INSPECTED BY THE DEALER, BUT WAS UNABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. THE MANUFACTURER WAS ALERTED. UPDATED 6-15-06 THE DOOR AJAR LIGHT IS ON. DEALER LUBED THE LOCKS AND LATCHES. *TT
NHTSA ID
10157782
Incident
May 18, 2006
Mileage
30,000 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Apr 5, 2006
WHILE COMING TO A STOP (TWICE) THE FORD RANGER ENGINE ACCELERATED SUDDENLY TO A POINT IT COULD NOT BE COMPLETELY STOPPED WITH THE BRAKE SYSTEM. HAD ANY TRAFFIC BEEN COMING I WOULD BE A DEAD MAN. I DID NOT HAVE MY FOOT ON ACCELERATOR NOR ARE THERE ANY FLOOR MATS IN THIS TRUCK TO GET STUCK UNDER THE ACCELERATOR. I'M SCARED TO DEATH TO DRIVE THIS VEHICLE AND I KNOW THAT IF I BRING IT TO THE FORD GARAGE THAT ITS GOING TO COST TONS OF MONEY AND THEY ARE GOING TO SAY THEY DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG. THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH A CONTROL MECHANISM SOMEWHERE. THIS HAS HAPPENED TWICE. ONCE AFTER DRIVING THE VEHICLE ABOUT A MILE. THE SECOND TIME (TODAY) AFTER DRIVING FOR HOURS. CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME OUT I REALLY AM SCARED TO DRIVE THIS TRUCK. *JB
NHTSA ID
10154663
Incident
Apr 5, 2006
Driver assistance
Filed Mar 31, 2006
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED INTERMITTENTLY THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED WHILE ATTEMPTING TO STOP. THIS OCCURRED 4-5 TIMES. ON ONE OCCASION, WHILE STOPPING AT AN INTERSECTION 10 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO GAIN SPEED EVEN THOUGH THE CONTACT WAS APPLYING BRAKE PRESSURE. THE CONTACT SHIFTED THE VEHICLE TO NEUTRAL AND IT BEGAN TO DECELERATE. THE DEALERSHIP HAS BEEN ALERTED.
NHTSA ID
10154272
Incident
Mar 30, 2006
Mileage
63,200 mi
BrakesDriver assistance
Filed Jan 23, 2006
Crash reported
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE APPROACHING AN INTERSECTION AT 40MPH THE VEHICLE IN FRONT STOPPED SHORT. WHEN THE BRAKES WERE DEPRESSED THE VEHICLE SEEMED TO ACCELERATE RATHER THAN SLOW DOWN. THE CONTACT SWERVED TO AVOID A DIRECT REAR END COLLISION, BUT CLIPPED THE VEHICLE IN THE RIGHT REAR BUMPER. BOTH VEHICLES SUSTAINED ONLY MINOR DAMAGE. THE POLICE FILED A REPORT AT THE SCENE. THE CONTACT EXPERIENCED TWO PREVIOUS FAILURES WITH THE BRAKES, BUT NO ACCIDENTS RESULTED IN THE OTHER INCIDENTS. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO A DEALER, BUT THE PROBLEM COULD NOT BE DUPLICATED. HOWEVER, THE DEALER REPLACED THE BRAKE PADS.
NHTSA ID
10148356
Incident
Jan 19, 2006
Mileage
30,000 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Sep 12, 2005
(1) WHEN I (THE DRIVER) HAVE ATTEMPTED TO STOP THE VEHICLE (A 2004 FORD RANGER WITH AUTOMATIC V-6), THE THROTTLE FAILS TO DISENGAGE AND EVEN APPEARS TO BE WORKING TO OVERCOME THE BRAKES. THIS HAS OCCURRED (3) TIMES SINCE THE VEHICLE'S PURCHASE ON JULY 30, 2005. (2) WHILE THE OCCURRENCES APPEAR RANDOM IN NATURE, THE ENGINE RACES, TIRES SPIN/SQUEAL EVEN WITH THE BRAKE PEDAL FULLY DEPRESSED. THE PROBLEM HAS OCCURRED EACH TIME WHEN THE ENGINE IS WARM AND ALWAYS WHEN ATTEMPTING TO COME TO A STOP AT LOW SPEEDS, SUCH AS AT A STOP SIGN OR IN A PARKING LOT. NO ACCIDENT HAS OCCURRED YET, HOWEVER, THIS WAS PURELY A MATTER OF LUCK AND TIMING. (3) THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN RETURNED TO THE FORD DEALERSHIP TWICE AND NO CORRECTIVE ACTIONS HAVE TAKEN PLACE, AS THE DEALERSHIP CAN NOT DUPLICATE THE RANDOM EVENT. *JB
NHTSA ID
10136221
Incident
Aug 29, 2005
Mileage
22,000 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Jan 24, 2005
Crash reported
AFTER MAKING A RIGHT TURN, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED AND LURCHED FORWARD AND CRASHED INTO A BRIDGE. THE CONSUMER DROVE THE VEHICLE HOME AND A TOW TRUCK PICKED THE VEHICLE UP AND TOOK THE VEHICLE TO THE DEALER. THE PROBLEM WAS NOT DETERMINED. *JB
NHTSA ID
10108746
Incident
Dec 15, 2004
Mileage
18,700 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Dec 28, 2004
Crash reported
WHILE DRIVING 50 MPH, THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL BECAME STUCK AND THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED TO 70 MPH. THE CONSUMER HIT A WALL. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED. *JB
NHTSA ID
10105433
Incident
Nov 27, 2004
Mileage
8,985 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Nov 17, 2004
THE ENGINE CONTROLLER TENDS TO HOLD THE ENGINE SPEED BETWEEN 2000 AND 2500 RPM WHEN MY FOOT IS NOT TOUCHING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL. THIS BEHAVIOR IS MOST OBVIOUS WHEN THE CLUTCH IS DEPRESSED WHILE CHANGING GEARS. THE ENGINE RPM IS HELD ARTIFICIALLY HIGH (WAY ABOVE NORMAL IDLE) FOR AS LONG AS I DEPRESS THE CLUTCH, UP UNTIL THE POINT THAT THE VEHICLE HAS COASTED ALMOST TO A COMPLETE STOP. I BELIEVE THAT THE COMPUTER ALSO DOES THIS WHEN THE CLUTCH IS ENGAGED. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I REMOVE PRESSURE FROM THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL AND ALLOW THE VEHICLE TO COAST WITH THE CLUTCH ENGAGED WHILE IN THIRD GEAR ON A LEVEL ROAD, THE VEHICLE NEVER SLOWS DOWN BELOW APPROXIMATELY 30 MPH (CORRESPONDING TO APPROXIMATELY 2000 ENGINE RPMS). ALSO, WHILE DESCENDING A HILL IN A LOW (2ND/3RD) GEAR USING ENGINE BRAKING (NOT TOUCHING THE GAS PEDAL), I CAN FEEL THE TRUCK SPONTANEOUSLY ACCELERATE. I FIRST TOOK THE TRUCK TO THE DEALER FOR THIS COMPLAINT ON 10/22/04. THE TECHNICIAN CONFIRMED THE BEHAVIOR, INSPECTED VARIOUS SENSORS, PROBED THE COMPUTER FOR ERROR CODES, AND EVENTUALLY RESORTED TO RESETTING THE COMPUTER IN HOPES THAT THE PROBLEM WOULD MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR. THIS OF COURSE DID NOT FIX THE PROBLEM, SO I RETURNED TO THE DEALERSHIP ON 11/16/04 WITH THE SAME COMPLAINT. THEY RESEARCHED THE ISSUE AND FOUND THAT IT IS A "NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC" OF THE VEHICLE, SUPPOSEDLY ADDED TO THE COMPUTER PROGRAM TO IMPROVE EMISSIONS. ASIDE FROM BEING ANNOYING, I BELIEVE THAT THIS "FEATURE" COULD POSE A SAFETY PROBLEM BECAUSE IT REDUCES THE EFFECTIVENESS AND PREDICTABILITY OF ENGINE BRAKING ON DOWN-HILL GRADES. ENGINE BRAKING IS VERY IMPORTANT IN MY AREA BECAUSE OF THE STEEP, FREQUENTLY SNOW-COVERED ROADS.*AK
NHTSA ID
10100088
Incident
Nov 16, 2004
Driver assistance
Filed Nov 3, 2004
THE VEHICLE EXPERIENCED AN ACCELERATION PROBLEM. WHEN DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD THE ACCELERATOR WILL REMAIN OPEN EVEN AFTER CONSUMER TOOK FOOT OFF THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, AND THE RPMS WILL HOLD AT 3,000 RPMS. THE CONSUMER CONTACTED THE DEALER, AND WAS TOLD THAT THIS WAS DESIGNED TO REDUCE FUEL EMISSIONS. THIS DEFECT OCCURRED INTERMITTENTLY. *AK *SC
NHTSA ID
10094683
Incident
Aug 5, 2004
Mileage
100 mi
AirbagsDriver assistance
Filed Aug 31, 2004
Crash reported2 injuries reported
WHILE DRIVING 45 MPH VEHICLE SUDDENLY ACCELERATED. CONSUMER APPLIED BOTH FEET TO THE BRAKE PEDAL AND VEHICLE CONTINUED TO ACCELERATE, CAUSING THE VEHICLE TO HIT AN EMBANKMENT AND ROLL OVER MORE THAN TWICE. DRIVER AND PASSENGER SUSTAINED NECK AND BACK INJURIES AND WERE TRANSPORTED BY AMBULANCE TO THE HOSPITAL. VEHICLE WAS TOTALED OUT BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY. UPON IMPACT, THE AIR BAGS DID NOT DEPLOY. *AK
NHTSA ID
10081589
Incident
Jul 8, 2004
Driver assistance
Filed Mar 23, 2004
WHILE DRIVING VEHICLE SUDDENLY ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN. THIS SUDDEN ACCELERATION OCCURRED MORE THAN THIRTY TIMES SINCE OWNERSHIP OF THE VEHICLE. FOUR DIFFERENT DEALERS EXAMINED THE VEHICLE, AND NONE OF THEM COULD FIND THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM. *AK
NHTSA ID
10064724
Incident
Feb 23, 2004
Mileage
750 mi
Driver assistance
Filed Mar 23, 2004
REPEATEDLY HIT THE ACCELORATOR PEDAL WHEN APPLYING BRAKES. *AK
NHTSA ID
10063715
Incident
Mar 23, 2004
Higher-selling and older vehicles accumulate more reports. Counts are not failure rates and are not directly comparable between vehicles that sold in very different numbers.
Other components reported on this vehicle
Categories with enough reports to have a page of their own