Reports submitted to NHTSA by owners and drivers, shown in full
Data refreshed
Complaints on fileComplaints are reports submitted to NHTSA by owners and drivers. NHTSA does not verify most reports before publishing them, and a complaint does not establish that a defect exists. Volume is influenced by how many of a vehicle were sold, how long it has been on the road, and how much attention an issue has received.
142
Latest Oct 11, 2010
Crash or fire reportedComplaints whose submitter recorded that a crash or a fire occurred. These are the reporter's own answers on the NHTSA form, not verified findings.
32
Filed in the last 12 monthsReports filed with NHTSA in the trailing 365 days. Recent volume reflects attention and vehicle age as much as anything else.
0
Reports on file since Dec 30, 1996
What this page shows
Our database holds 142 NHTSA owner-reported complaints for the 1997 Mercury Tracer. Each one is a report filed by an owner or driver and published by NHTSA without most of them being verified. A complaint is not a confirmed defect, not a recall and not a manufacturer bulletin. Narratives are shown exactly as filed.
Complaints are reports submitted by owners and drivers to NHTSA. They are not verified and do not establish that a defect exists.
Complaints, most recent first
Showing 1–25 of 142 · page 1 of 6
Suspension
Filed Oct 11, 2010
1997 MERCURY TRACER TRIO VIN [XXX] MY WIFE AND I BOUGHT THIS CAR FROM WANTED AUTO SALES IN WORLEY IDAHO. MY WE HAVE A ONE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. WE HEARD A NOISE FROM THE REAR OF THE CAR. MY WIFE THOUGHT WE WERE BOTTOMING OUT. I CAME TO DISCOVER THAT BOTH REAR FACTORY STRUTS THE COIL SPRINGS WERE BROKEN NEAR THE BOTTOM OF THE STRUT HOUSING. IT LOOKS LIKE THE METAL HAS JUST FRACTURED AND FAILED. THE COILS MATERIAL MUST BE DEFECTIVE AND NOT UP TO SPECS FROM FORD THIS IS CLEARLY A FORD DEFECT. THIS IS A HUGE SAFETY CONCERN FOR US WITH A ONE YEAR OLD IN THE CAR. WE ARE NOT HAPPY IF THIS COULD COST THE DEATH OF A CHILD BECAUSE OF A UNSAFE CONDITION. THE CAR IS NOT NEW BUT THE SPRINGS SHOULD LAST THE LIFE OF THE CAR NOT BREAK LIKE THIS. INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6).*TR
NHTSA ID
10359948
Incident
Oct 10, 2010
Mileage
181,675 mi
Airbags
Filed Jul 19, 2010
WE HAD TAKEN MY VEHICLE TO GET IT CHECKED BY A COMPUTER AT A LOCAL SERVICE PARTS SHOP. WHEN WE CAME BACK WE STOPPED MY CAR AND IT WAS NOT RUNNING, IGNITION OFF. ABOUT AN HOUR LATER WE HEARD A LOUD NOISE AND ITS AIR BAGS HAD GONE OFF, BREAKING MY CAR'S WINDSHIELD AND OBVIOUSLY MAKING A MESS IN MY CAR. THIS CONCERNS ME SINCE MY HUSBAND AND I HAD JUST BEEN IN THE CAR A WHILE AGO AND COULD HAVE CAUSED INJURY TO US WITHOUT CAUSE. *TR
NHTSA ID
10344024
Incident
Jun 25, 2010
Mileage
130,000 mi
Tires & wheels
Filed Jun 22, 2010
WHILE DRIVING FELT SEVERE VIBRATION AND LOUD NOISE AT ALL SPEEDS AND CAR PULLING TO THE RIGHT HARD. VIBRATION BECAME WORSE ABOUT 8 MILES LATER, CAR WAS NOT DRIVABLE AND ALMOST RAN OFF THE ROAD. THE TREAD SEPARATED FROM THE TIRE. PULLED OVER, PUT THE SPARE ON. PEP BOYS REPLACED BOTH FRONT TIRES, THE OTHER TIRE HAD TREAD FAILURE ALSO. PEP BOYS REFUSED TO GIVE ME THE DEFECTIVE TIRES. *TR
NHTSA ID
10339479
Incident
Jun 19, 2010
Mileage
69,093 mi
Engine
Filed Mar 18, 2008
Fire reported
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 1997 MERCURY TRACER. WHILE DRIVING 70 MPH, THE VEHICLE LOST POWER AND THE CONTACT PULLED TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. HE LIFTED THE HOOD AND NOTICED FLAMES COMING FROM THE ENGINE. HE EXTINGUISHED THE FIRE AND HAD THE VEHICLE TOWED TO A JUNKYARD. THE CONTACT LATER SOLD THE VEHICLE TO THE JUNKYARD FOR $100. THE DEALER STATED THAT BECAUSE HE NO LONGER OWNED THE VEHICLE, THEY COULD NOT INVESTIGATE THE FAILURE. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE 78,000. UPDATED 04/16/08 *BF UPDATED 04/16/08 *TR
NHTSA ID
10221547
Incident
Nov 10, 2004
Mileage
78,000 mi
BrakesHeating & air conditioningEngine+1 more
Filed Nov 7, 2007
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 1997 MERCURY TRACER. THE CONTACT STATED WHILE DRIVING 45 MPH, SHE LOST CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE AND DROVE INTO THE MEDIAN TO AVOID ONCOMING TRAFFIC. THE ENGINE SHUT OFF AND THE CYLINDER HEAD WAS BLOWN. THE DEALER WAS UNABLE TO DIAGNOSE THE FAILURE; HOWEVER, THEY STATED THAT THE ENGINE NEEDED TO BE REBUILT. . THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE CYLINDER HEAD IN THE ENGINE FAILED AND CAUSED HER TO LOSE CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE. THE VEHICLE HAS NOT BEEN REPAIRED. THE DEALER AND THE WARRANTY COMPANY STATED THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO HONOR THE WARRANTY TO REPAIR THE VEHICLE. THE WARRANTY INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE IF NEEDED. THE FAILURE ALSO CAUSED DAMAGE TO THE FRONT DRIVER AND PASSENGER SIDE TIRES. THERE WERE NO INJURIES. ON OCTOBER 8, 2007, THE CONTACT DROVE TO THE DEALER BECAUSE THE VEHICLE WAS LEAKING COOLANT. AFTER THREE HOURS OF INSPECTING THE VEHICLE, THE CAUSE OF THE FAILURE WAS STILL UNDETERMINED. THE DEALER ADVISED HER TO BRING THE VEHICLE BACK IN A FEW DAYS. A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER, WHILE DRIVING 45 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN LOSING SPEED AND THE ENGINE FAILED. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED BACK TO THE DEALER AND THEY STATED THAT THE ENGINE FAILED. THE VEHICLE HAS AN EXTENDED WARRANTY THROUGH ANOTHER COMPANY. THE VEHICLE WAS INSPECTED BY THE WARRANTY COMPANY, BUT THEY REFUSED TO PAY FOR THE REPAIR WORK. THE DEALER REFUSED TO PERFORM THE REPAIR. THE CONTACT BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS BECAUSE SHE REPORTED THE DEALER TO THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU. THE CURRENT AND FAILURE MILEAGES WERE 91,698. THE FUEL GAUGE WAS INOPERATIVE. THE AC DID NOT BLOW OUT COLD AIR, THE FRONT BRAKES WERE REPLACED. UPDATED 12/12/07
NHTSA ID
10208138
Incident
Oct 8, 2007
Mileage
91,698 mi
Airbags
Filed Aug 31, 2007
1 injury reported
TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 1997 MERCURY TRACER. WHILE DRIVING 5 MPH, THE AIR BAGS DEPLOYED WITHOUT WARNING. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT INVOLVED IN A CRASH. THE MANUFACTURER STATED THAT THE VIN WAS NOT INCLUDED IN NHTSA CAMPAIGN NUMBER 02V323000 (AIR BAGS:FRONTAL:SENSOR/CONTROL MODULE). THE DRIVER SUSTAINED BRUISES TO HER HANDS. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT TOWED. THE CURRENT AND FAILURE MILEAGES WERE 171,437. UPDATED 01-15-08. *KB UPDATED *JB
NHTSA ID
10201339
Incident
Aug 30, 2007
Mileage
171,437 mi
Interior & seats
Filed May 10, 2006
Fire reported2 injuries reported
THIS CAR IS A FORD MERCURY TRACER, 1997, VIN #1MELM10P2VW6246 THERE WAS A SMELL OF BURNING ACID AND A SMALL AMOUNT OF SMOKE. ABOUT TWO HOURS LATER THE CAR BURST IN FLAMES WE LOST THE ENTIRE INTERIOR. *JB
NHTSA ID
10157162
Incident
Feb 10, 2006
Mileage
19,000 mi
Suspension
Filed Feb 28, 2006
1-CAR SEEMED TO BOTTOM OUT IN THE REAR WHEN 4 OCCUPANTS WERE IN CAR, ALSO SCRAPING NOISE. 2-CHECKED CAR AND FOUND CONTACT-COIL SPRINGS RUBBING AGAINST CAR, APPEARED TO BE OUT OF THE HOLDER. CHECKED AND FOUND BOTH REAR SPRINGS BROKEN. SPRINGS PROVIDE VEHICLE STABILITY, CONTROL AND HANDLING. 3-REPLACED BOTH REAR COIL SPRINGS, I HAVE BOTH OLD SPRINGS. INSTRUCTIONS FOR INSTALLATION OF NEW SPRINGS HAVE THE SPRINGS INSTALLED 180 DEGREES FROM THE POSITION OF THE OLD SPRINGS. TIGHT COILS UP, OEM WAS TIGHT COILS DOWN. *NM
NHTSA ID
10151381
Incident
Feb 27, 2006
Mileage
139,000 mi
AirbagsInterior & seats
Filed Apr 6, 2005
Fire reported
WHILE DRIVING AIR BAG LIGHT ILLUMINATED AND VEHICLE STALLED. DRIVER GOT THE VEHICLE TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE UNDER THE DASHBOARD. *AK *NM
NHTSA ID
10055640
Incident
Dec 18, 2003
Mileage
60,000 mi
Engine
Filed Mar 26, 2005
RPM'S LOWER AND STALL CAR-TOOK TO SHOP IN 2004 TOLD PLUG/WIRE MISFIRE AND VACUUM LEAK. PAID ALMOST $200. ONE WEEK LATER STARTED AGAIN. CAR VIBRATES BADLY WHEN BRAKE APPLIED, BOTH BACK SPRINGS HAVE GIVEN OUT, CRANKSHAFT/PULLEY WOBBLES BADLY, HAS SNAPPED SERPENTINE BELT, REPLACED BELT TENSIONER AND BELT, SNAPPED AGAIN ONE MONTH LATER, REPLACED BELT AGAIN, BUT HAS ONLY BEEN TWO MONTHS. CAR SWAYS IN LANE DUE TO BAD BACK SPRINGS. CAR MAKES VIBRATING NOISE UNDER HOOD WHEN PARKED AT AN IDLE. TIE ROD REPLACED TWO TIMES. THIS CAR HAS LESS THAN 70,000 MILES ON IT AND ALL PROBLEMS, INCLUDING A BLOWN RADIATOR, AND UNEXPLAINED WEAR ON BRAKES ALL STARTED AT ABOUT 40,000 MILES. THIS CAR HAS BEEN ONE PROBLEM AFTER ANOTHER. I ALSO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SEATBELTS LOCKING TOO TIGHTLY FOR NO REASON. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD THAT I AM THE 2ND OWNER OF THIS CAR; HOWEVER, THE 1ST OWNER WAS AN OLDER FAMILY MEMBER THAT DROVE TO AND FROM WORK.*AK
NHTSA ID
10114764
Incident
Jun 1, 2004
Visibility
Filed Dec 21, 2004
HEATER CORE LEAKED FLUID ONTO THE COMPUTER SYSTEM WHICH BURNED THE CIRCUIT BOARD THAT CONTROLLED THE AIR BAGS. *AK
NHTSA ID
10051937
Incident
Dec 22, 2003
Airbags
Filed Nov 30, 2004
Crash reported1 injury reported
THE CONSUMER'S VEHICLE HIT ANOTHER VEHICLE'S BUMPER AT AN IMPACT OF 35 MPH, AND NEITHER FRONTAL AIR BAG DEPLOYED. THE DEALER WAS NOTIFIED. *AK THE CONSUMER WAS INFORMED THAT THE VEHICLE HAD BEEN WRECKED BEFORE. *SC
NHTSA ID
10097699
Incident
Sep 3, 2004
Mileage
20,000 mi
Electrical
Filed Nov 19, 2004
THE HORN SUDDENLY GOES OFF AND WON'T STOP UNTIL THE FUSE IS PULLED-ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. I HAVE HAD TO DISCONNECT THE HORN FUSE AND DRIVE AROUND WITH NO HORN FOR A YEAR NOW DUE TO THIS MALFUNCTION. MUCH TIME AND MONEY WAS SPENT TRYING TO FIND OUT THE PROBLEM AND WAS FINALLY TOLD THAT I WOULD HAVE TO REPLACE THE ENTIRE AIRBAG/HORN UNIT, AT A COST OF $600.00. *AK
NHTSA ID
10100182
Incident
Nov 19, 2004
Fuel system
Filed Oct 26, 2004
WHILE DRIVING 20 MPH CONSUMER SMELLED FUEL. CONSUMER WAS ABLE TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE, AND PULLED OVER. THEN, NOTICED THAT FLUID WAS LEAKING FROM UNDERNEATH THE VEHICLE. IT WAS TAKEN TO A GARAGE FOR INSPECTION, AND MECHANIC DETERMINED THAT THE FUEL TANK WAS CRACKED AND NEEDED TO BE REPLACED. *AK
NHTSA ID
10097803
Incident
Sep 20, 2004
Airbags
Filed Sep 7, 2004
Fire reported
02V323000/INTEGRATED AIR BAG MONITOR CONTAMINATION. THIS VEHICLE HAD BEEN RECALLED FOR THIS DEFECT. THE WORK WAS DONE IN 2003. NOW THE PROBLEM HAS RESURFACED AND THE DEALER WANTS THE OWNER TO PAY 4000.00 TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CORRECTED WHEN THE RECALL WAS ORIGINALLY ISSUED. PROVIDE FURTHER DETAILS. *JB
NHTSA ID
10091497
Incident
Sep 7, 2004
Mileage
130,000 mi
AirbagsVisibility
Filed Aug 12, 2004
THE VEHICLE WAS PARKED IN THE CONSUMER'S DRIVEWAY WHEN BOTH FRONT AIR BAGS DEPLOYED. IT WAS LATER DETERMINED THAT THE AIR BAG SENSOR WAS DESTROYED BY MOISTURE INTRUSION INTO THE AIR BAG MODULE AND CONNECTORS. AS A RESULT OF THE AIR BAG DEPLOYMENT THE WINDSHIELD THE WINDSHIELD SHATTERED AND THE DASHBOARD WAS DESTROYED. MANUFACTURER WAS CONTACTED AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. THE VEHICLE HAS NOT BEEN REPAIRED. *AK THE CONSUMER LATER LEARNED OF A RECALL THAT WAS ISSUED FOR THIS PROBLEM. THE CONSUMER WAS NEVER NOTIFIED OF THE RECALL. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO A DEALER WHO DETERMINED THAT THE INTRUSION WAS CAUSED BY A PIN HOLE LEAK IN THE HEATER CORE THEREFORE THE VEHICLE WAS NOT COVERED UNDER THE RECALL. THE CONSUMER INTENDS TO PURSE THE MATTER FURTHER. *NM
NHTSA ID
10081809
Incident
May 12, 2004
Mileage
108,000 mi
Body & structure
Filed Jul 3, 2004
A FEW MONTHS BEFORE AUGUST OF 2001 I NOTICED THE PAINT ON THE HOOD OF MY VAN STARTING TO PEEL.I BROUGHT MY VAN IN TO GET FIXED ON AUG.23, 2001 AND THEY SAID FORD WAS GOING TO CALL THEM BACK TO TELL ME IF THIS WAS COVERED UNDER OUR WARRANTY.IT WAS NOT, BUT I FEEL THIS IS A DEFECT IN THE PAINT. ONLY THE HOOD IS PEELING, NOTHING ELSE.I HAVE HUGE CIRCLES OF PAINT MISSING-PROBABLY ABOUT 10 INCHES IN DIAMETER.IT LOOKS AWFUL!*AK
NHTSA ID
10079231
Incident
Mar 1, 2001
Interior & seats
Filed Jul 3, 2004
ABOUT 2-3 YEARS AGO,WE HAD PROBLEMS STARTING WITH OUR POWER DOOR LOCKS.THEY ARE POSSESSED. THEY LOCK AND UNLOCK ALL BY THEMSELVES.I HAVE HAD OUR VAN IN 3 TIMES FOR THIS TO BE FIXED. THEY REPLACE A PART, AND SAY IT IS FIXED, BUT IT ISN'T. *AK
NHTSA ID
10079230
Incident
Aug 23, 2001
Mileage
16,000 mi
Body & structure
Filed Apr 29, 2004
CONSUMER CRAMPED UP IN 1997 MERCURY TRACER. *PH THE CONSUMER STATED THE VEHICLE WAS NOT WIDE ENOUGH AND THE REAR WINDOWS WERE DESIGNED NOT TO ROLL ALL THE WAY DOWN. *JB
NHTSA ID
10071922
Incident
Apr 1, 2004
AirbagsElectrical
Filed Jan 15, 2004
Fire reported
WHILE DRIVING DOWN AT SPEED OF 65-70 MPH, THE CAR CEASED TO ACCELORATE. I PULLED OVER TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, ONCE THE CAR WAS COMPLETELY STOPPED IT WOULD NO LONGER CRANK. TODAY WHEN I WENT TO CLEAN IT OUT (HAPPENED AT NIGHT)I SAW THAT A HOLE WAS BURNED THROUGH THE BOTTOM OF THE PASSENGER SIDE DASH BOARD. ALSO I NOTICED THAT THERE WAS SMOKE/FIRE RESIDUE ON THE WINDSHIELD COMING FROM THE DEFROST VENTS. BEFORE ANY OF THIS HAPPENED THE AIRBAG LIGTS WERE COMING ON AND THERE WAS A BURNT PLASTIC SMELL AND A SCENT OF AMMONIA SMELL COMING FROM GOD-KNOWS-WHERE. WHEN I LOOKED UNDER THE HOOD EVERYTHING LOOKED NORMAL. I HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO GO TO WORK FOR 2 DAYS NOW. PLEASE TELL ME IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT I CAN DO. THANKING YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.
NHTSA ID
10070841
Incident
Sep 15, 2003
Mileage
102,000 mi
Suspension
Filed Dec 7, 2003
MY 1997 MERCURY TRACER FAILED THE PA STATE INSPECTION DUE TO BOTH REAR SUSPENSION SPRINGS BEING BROKEN. A REVIEW OF THE TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN FOR THIS VEHICLE INDICATES THAT THIS FAILURE HAS HAPPENED TO OTHER LIKE VEHICLES BUT THERE SHOULD BE NO RESULTING OPERATIONAL CONCERN. WHY THEN DID THE STATE INSPECTION FAIL THE VEHICLE? WHAT COURSE OF ACTION CAN I TAKE TO GET REIMBURSED FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF BOTH REAR SPRINGS? *LA
NHTSA ID
10049337
Incident
Dec 5, 2003
Airbags
Filed Nov 19, 2003
PROBLEMS WITH AIR BAG MONITOR ON 1997 MERCURY TRACER.*MR THE CONSUMER STATED AN AMMONIA TYPE SMELL BEGAN TO EMIT FROM THE VEHICLE, SOON AFTER, THERE WAS A BURNT PLASTIC ODOR ALSO EMITTING FROM THE VEHICLE AND MOMENTS LATER THE AIR BAG AND CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS ILLUMINATED ON THE DASHBOARD AND FINALLY THE VEHICLE CEASED TO CONTINUE FUNCTIONING WHILE THE VEHICLE BECAME SMOKY. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED TO A DEALERSHIP WHERE THE CONSUMER WAS INFORMED THERE WAS A RECALL ON THE AIR BAG SENSOR/CONTROL MODULE, RECALL #02V323000. *JB *NM
NHTSA ID
10048553
Incident
Sep 14, 2003
Airbags
Filed Nov 18, 2003
Fire reported1 injury reported
TWO WEEKS AGO MY CAR (A 1997 MERCURY TRACER) WAS INVOLVED IN AN CAR ACCIDENT IN KINGMAN, (4 HOURS NORTH WEST OF PHOENIX). THE CAUSE OF THE ACCIDENT WAS THE FAULT OF THE AIR BAGS SUDDENLY DEPLOYING WITHOUT CAUSE, CAUSING EXTENSIVE DAMAGE TO MY CAR. I THEN NOTIFIED MY INSURANCE COMPANY AND IT WAS TOWED TO A REPAIR SHOP HERE IN KINGMAN. LATER THE NEXT DAY WHILE THE REPAIR SHOP WAS DOING THEIR INVESTIGATION INTO THE CAUSE, THE CAR BURST INTO FLAMES FROM THE AIR BAG COMPARTMENT. A COUPLE DAYS LATER THE INSURANCE COMPANY NOTIFIED ME THAT THERE WAS A RECALL FROM FORD MOTOR COMPANY OF WHICH I WAS NEVER NOTIFIED. THEN CONFIRMING THAT TO ME THAT MY CAR WAS IN FACT TOTALED, AND THEY WISHED TO REMOVE THE CAR FROM THE REPAIR SHOP. EARLIER LAST WEEK I SENT AN EMAIL TO FORD MOTORS TELLING OF MY DISGUST OF THE COMPANY BECAUSE I WAS NEVER NOTIFIED ON SUCH A SERIOUS ISSUE. ON FRIDAY 11/14 I RECEIVED A CALL FROM FORD MOTORS CUSTOMER SERVICE ASKING FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE ACCIDENT. AT THIS TIME I AM WAITING FOR A RESPONSE BACK FROM, WHAT I ASSUME, IS THEIR LEGAL DEPARTMENT. *LA
NHTSA ID
10047105
Incident
Nov 6, 2003
Mileage
119,800 mi
Electrical
Filed Nov 17, 2003
HORN DOES NOT WORK . DEALER NOTIFIED , BUT CLAIMED VEHICLE HAD NO WARRANTY. *AK
NHTSA ID
10048067
Incident
Nov 17, 2003
Mileage
65,000 mi
Airbags
Filed Sep 23, 2003
Fire reported
DRIVING ON I-20 EASTBOUND. SMELLED AMMONIA, THEN SMELLED BURNT PLASTIC, AIRBAG LIGHT ILLUMINATED, CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ILLUMINATED, INTERIOR LIGHT FLICKERED OFF AND ON, CAR BEGAN TO DECREASE SPEED DESPITE PRESSING ON THE GAS PEDAL. WAS ABLE TO GET CAR INTO THE EMERGENCY LANE BEFORE IT COMPLETELY STOPPED MOVING. HOLE BURNT INTO PASSENGER AREA FROM UNDERNEATH DASH AREA. DEFROST AREA WARPED AND BURNT, BOTTOM OF WINDSHIELD (GLASS PART) BURNT.
NHTSA ID
10039422
Incident
Sep 14, 2003
Mileage
102,000 mi
Higher-selling and older vehicles accumulate more reports. Counts are not failure rates and are not directly comparable between vehicles that sold in very different numbers.
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