RoadVitals

1999 Toyota 4Runner Brakes Problems

Owner-reported complaints naming the brake system, filed with NHTSA

Data refreshed

Brakes reportsComplaints are reports submitted to NHTSA by owners and drivers. NHTSA does not verify most reports before publishing them, and a complaint does not establish that a defect exists. Volume is influenced by how many of a vehicle were sold, how long it has been on the road, and how much attention an issue has received.
26
Latest Jun 14, 2021
Share of all reportsThis category as a share of every owner report on file for this model year. One report can name more than one component, so the categories overlap.
8%
of 330 total
Crash or fire reportedReports in this category whose submitter recorded that a crash or a fire occurred. The reporter's own answer on the NHTSA form, not a verified finding.
4
Injuries or deaths reportedTotals the submitters entered on their own reports in this category. Not verified by NHTSA and not a casualty statistic.
3

What this page shows

Reports naming service brakes, the antilock braking system, brake hoses, master cylinders or the parking brake. Every record below is an owner-reported complaint about the 1999 Toyota 4Runner submitted to NHTSA — not a confirmed defect, not a recall and not a manufacturer bulletin. 26 reports on file name it.

Complaints are reports submitted by owners and drivers to NHTSA. They are not verified and do not establish that a defect exists.

Owner reports naming brake

The 25 most recent of 26, in the owner's own words

BrakesSteeringSuspension
Filed Jun 14, 2021

Over the years of ownership, my vehicle has been overwhelmed with rust issues. All four axles are rusted to include the brake components. I didn't realize how bad the rusting was until I heard "popping" noise when making turns The rear suspension sway bar link was rusted so bad, it broke free. I had the rack and pinion replaced in August of 2020 because rust ate through the lines. The frame appears to have separations due to rust as well.

NHTSA ID
11420795
Incident
Jun 14, 2021
BrakesOther / unspecified
Filed Apr 15, 2019
Crash reported

I DO NOT KNOW IF THE STOPPING PROBLEM IS THE BRAKES, TIRES, BOTH, OR SOMETHING ELSE. AT ONE POINT I GOT NEW TIRES AND THE STOPPING PROBLEM STILL OCCURRED. MY FAMILY HAS BEEN IN 3 ACCIDENTS WITH OTHER CARS AND MANY MORE INCIDENTS BY THE CAR ITSELF. WHEN BRAKING IN RAIN/SNOW/ICE AND EVEN SLIGHT DAMP ROADS THE CAR SKIDS FORWARD. WE HAVE TO KEEP EXTRA DISTANCE IN FRONT OF NOW COMPARED TO OTHER CARS WE DRIVE. ALSO DURING ACCELERATION ON RWD FROM A STOPLIGHT EVEN DURING DRY CONDITIONS SOMETIMES THE REAR TIRES SPIN OUT/BURN OUT/ HAVE NO TRACTION.

NHTSA ID
11196179
Incident
Jan 2, 2015
Mileage
160,000 mi
Body & structureBrakesSuspension
Filed Sep 13, 2018

BAD FRAME ROT. NOT SAFE TO DRIVE ANYMORE.

NHTSA ID
11129247
Incident
Jun 25, 2008
Mileage
80,000 mi
AirbagsBrakesElectrical
Filed Feb 27, 2017

ABS LIGHT ;PO500 CODE SPEED SENSOR A SPEEDOMETER NOT WORKING, WONT SHIFT INTO GEAR WITH ABS LIGHT ON WINDOWS MALFUNCTION AND ALL ELECTRIC WINDOWS STOPPED WORKING POSSIBLY DUE TO SAME ABS CIRCUITE AS NOTICED SAME EXACT TIMEFRAME. APART FROM THAT PRIOR MALFUNCTIONS INCLUDE AIRBAG LIGHT STAYS ON NEEDS RESTTING FROM DEALER AND ALSO HORN DOES NOT OPERATE. MISSING/NO FACTORY INSTALLED FOG LAMPS --DEALER WANTS OVER 1,200.00 FOR 2 BASIC FOG LAMPS FROM THEIR PARTS DEPT.

NHTSA ID
10957316
Incident
Feb 25, 2017
BrakesDriver assistanceEngine
Filed Aug 30, 2016

WENT TO GET AND OIL CHANGE, WHEN MY CAR WAS RETURNED THE CAR STARTED TO VIBRATE VERY TIME I WAS AT A STOP SIGN, THEN THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT CAME OVER 12-13 TIMES ALL WITH DIFFERENT CODES... MY CAR KEEPS STALLING AND RESTARTING... THE BRAKES IS MAKING A GRINDING SOUND JUST GOT THE BRAKES DONE... FUEL INJECTION CLEANING ... AND THE RIGHT REAR LIGHT KEEPS MALFUNCTIONING EVEN AFTER I'VE CHANGE THE BULBS ON SEVERAL TIMES...

NHTSA ID
10899463
Incident
Apr 19, 2016
BrakesOther / unspecifiedSuspension
Filed Jan 14, 2016
1 injury reported

PERPETUAL REAR BRAKE FAILURE DUE TO LEAKING REAR AXLE GREASE SEALS WHICH THROW GREASE ONTO REAR BRAKE SHOES. SOAKING THEM AND RENDERING THEM USELESS AND INNEFECTIVE. CAUSING UNSAFE BRAKING. ACCORDING TO TOYOTA DEALER, AND SEARS AUTO SERVICE IN DOVER, DELAWARE., REPAIRS SIMILAR TO THIS ARE BEING PERFORMED ON SIMILAR VINTAGE TOYOTA FOUR RUNNER MODELS ON A WEEKLY BASIS. THE AVERAGE REPAIR COST IS OVER $1000,. THIS APPEARS TO BE A VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS DEFECT NOT A STANDARD MAINTENANCE ISSUE AND COULD RESULT IN INJURIES OR DEATH. I HAD NO BRAKE POWER IN A NUMBER OF EMERGENCY SITUATIONS, IN OTHERS MY BRAKING DISTANCE INCREASED DRAMATICALLY, IN A FEW CASES, I'VE HAD THE REPAIRS DONE BUT THE PROBLEM HAS RETURNED,.

NHTSA ID
10820148
Incident
Aug 15, 2014
Mileage
200,000 mi
BrakesPowertrain (other)Suspension
Filed Jul 31, 2012

THE REAR AXLE SEALS REPEATEDLY FAIL ON THIS VEHICLE, I'M NOW HAVING TO MAKE A FOURTH COSTLY REPLACEMENT OF BOTH THE REAR AXLE SEAL AND CONTAMINATED BRAKE SHOES. FOR THE FOURTH TIME THE REAR AXLE SEAL HAS FAILED WHICH LEAKS BRAKE FLUID ONTO REAR BRAKE SHOES, RESULTING IN SEVERE REDUCTION OF REAR BRAKING POWER. ALSO, AS A RESULT THE FRONT BRAKES ARE PLACED UNDER UNDUE PRESSURE AND WARPING OF FRONT BRAKE ROTORS OCCURS WHICH MUST ALSO BE ADDRESSED. WHILE I HAVE PREVIOUSLY FILED COMPLAINTS OVER THIS SAME ISSUE SINCE 2005 WITH BOTH TOYOTA AND THE NHTSB, THERE HAS BEEN NO RECALL INITIATED. THE LAST TIME MY REAR AXLE SEALS WERE REPLACED WAS LESS THAN 20,000 MILES AGO. THIS VEHICLE ONLY SEES NORMAL WEAR AND USAGE. I AM NOT THE ONLY COMPLAINT AS MANY OTHERS HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SAME ISSUE BASED ON TOYOTA FORUM DISCUSSIONS AND A SEARCH OF NHTSB COMPLAINT FILINGS. TOYOTA CUSTOMER SERVICE CENTER AGAIN REFUSED TO ASSIST ME IN ANY WAY WITH TODAYS COMPLAINT FILING ON 7/31/12. *TR

NHTSA ID
10468512
Incident
Jul 31, 2012
Mileage
286,000 mi
Body & structureBrakesSteering+1 more
Filed Nov 2, 2011

FULL BLOWN FRAME RUST MECHANIC STATES IS 100% INVASIVE AFFECTING STEERING, ALIGNMENT, BRAKING, AND CHECKING OF DIFFERENTIAL AND REAR-END FLUIDS DUE TO SEIZED COMPONENTS. FRAME IS TOTALLY COMPROMISED, NEEDS TO BE RECALLED AND RECTIFIED. *TR

NHTSA ID
10434011
Incident
Oct 27, 2011
Body & structureBrakes
Filed Apr 7, 2010

UPON A NORMAL MAINTENANCE ON THE FRONT BRAKES MY MECHANIC FOUND THAT THE FRONT FRAME WAS RUSTED TO A DANGEROUS LEVEL. I WILL HAVE TO HAVE PLATES WELDED ONTO THE FRAME TO MAKE IT SAFE TO DRIVE. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN ON A VEHICLE THAT IS ONLY 11 YEARS OLD AND CAREFULLY MAINTAINED. THE VEHICLE IS A 1999 TOYOTA 4 RUNNER. *TR

NHTSA ID
10324197
Incident
Apr 6, 2010
Mileage
335,000 mi
Brakes
Filed Feb 4, 2010

I HAVE A 1999 TOYOTA 4RUNNER THAT HAS THE SAME PROBLEM WITH THE ABS AS IS BEING REPORTED FOR THE 2010 PRIUS, ONLY WORSE. WHEN THE ABS KICKS IN ON SLICK OR UNEVEN SURFACES, THE VEHICLE GOES INTO A FREELY-FLOATING MODE FOR 5+ SECONDS. THERE IS NO BRAKING CAPACITY AT ALL DURING THAT TIME AND STEERING IS DIFFICULT. THE VEHICLE IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL DURING THAT TIME. I HAVE HAD MULTIPLE NEAR-MISSES WHICH WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN SERIOUS HARM TO MYSELF AND OTHERS AND A FEW INCIDENCES WHERE I ENDED UP RUNNING OFF THE ROAD (ONCE INTO A RAVINE) OR HITTING MEDIAN STRIPS W/O INVOLVING OTHER VEHICLES. I TOOK MY VEHICLE TO THE TOYOTA DEALER TWICE ABOUT THIS ISSUE. ONCE I WAS TOLD I WAS NUTS, THAT THE ABS COULDN'T POSSIBLY BEHAVE THAT WAY; AND THE OTHER TIME I WAS TOLD THAT, "OH YEAH, THAT'S HOW ABS WORKS." NO EXAMINATION OR CORRECTION WAS OFFERED. MY STRATEGY HAS BEEN TO ALWAYS TOUCH THE BRAKES SO GENTLY THAT ABS DOESN'T KICK IN, BUT THIS WINTERS SNOWY WEATHER HAS DEFEATED THIS PLAN. WHENEVER I BRAKE ON A SLICK, SNOWY SURFACE THE ABS KICKS IN NO MATTER HOW GENTLY I TOUCH THE BRAKES. LAST WEEK, I HAD AN EXTREMELY HARROWING CLOSE CALL WHEN MY VEHICLE WENT CAREENING OUT OF CONTROL INTO AN INTERSECTION WHEN ANOTHER VEHICLE WAS PASSING THROUGH IT. THIS WAS ON A SIDE STREET WHEN I WAS MOVING VERY SLOWLY AND HAD BEGUN THE GENTLE BRAKING AT LEAST 30' BEFORE THE INTERSECTION... BUT THE ABS KICKED IN, AND I COULD NOT STOP BEFORE SLIDING INTO THE INTERSECTION. (FOR THE REQUIRED FIELD ASKING FOR THE INCIDENT DATE, I'LL GIVE THE DATE OF THIS MOST RECENT NEAR-MISS, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN MANY INCIDENTS OVER THE YEARS.) *JB

NHTSA ID
10306189
Incident
Jan 28, 2010
BrakesElectricalEngine+1 more
Filed Aug 18, 2008

#1 STARTER STUCK TWICE-EVEN REMOVED KEY AND ENGINE KEPT CRANKING. #2 FUEL GUAGE REAES FULL WHEN EMPTY AND VISE VERSA. #3 P0171 ENGINE CODE KEEPS THROWING #4 BRAKES FADE WHEN APPLIED HARD. HAVE REPLACED PADS AND ROTORS AND STILL FADE. *TR

NHTSA ID
10238740
Incident
Jul 7, 2008
Mileage
132,000 mi
Brakes
Filed Aug 5, 2004

CONSUMER COMPLAINED ABOUT VEHICLE VIBRATING WHEN APPLYING THE BRAKES. CONSUMER REPLACED THE FRONT PADS AND BOTH FRONT ROTORS. WITHIN TWO WEEKS THE PROBLEM RECURRED. DEALER WAS CONTACTED. *AK

NHTSA ID
10087295
Incident
Feb 20, 2004
Mileage
97,000 mi
Brakes
Filed Jun 2, 2004

EXPERIENCING SEVERE VIBRATION WHEN BRAKING AT SPEEDS OVER 50 MPH. STEERING WHEEL VIBRATES AND CONTROL IS DIFFICULT. IDENTIFIED AS WARPED ROTOR. TOYOTA DEALER WANTS TO CHARGE TO REPLACE FRONT CALIPER/ROTOR WITH LARGER DESIGN. CLAIMS THAT ITS COMMON TO HAVE IT FAIL SHORTLY AFTER WARRANTEE COVERAGE. (FAILED AT 50000, COVERAGE TO 36000) PURCHASED VEHICLE WITH 17000 MILES AND ROTORS/PADS LOOK GOOD.*AK

NHTSA ID
10074659
Incident
May 10, 2004
Mileage
50,000 mi
Brakes
Filed May 22, 2004
Crash reported

WHILE PULLING OUR 1999 4-RUNNER WITH 39,000 MILES INTO A PARKING STALL, THE BRAKE PEDDLE WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE FLOOR WITHOUT STOPPING, RESULTING IN A MINOR ACCIDENT WITH NO INJURIES. A SERVICE TECHNICIAN (NOT FROM TOYOTA) EXAMINED THE VEHICLE AND NOTHING UNUSUAL WAS OBSERVED. HOWEVER, DURING A ROAD TEST, THE PEDDLE WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN AGAIN WHEN HE ATTEMPTED TO STOP. HE PUMPED THE BRAKES AND THEY "CAUGHT" AND STOPPED THE VEHICLE. A TOYOTA DEALER HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. A FIELD SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE FROM TOYOTA EXAMINED THE VEHICLE TODAY AFTER WHICH, WE WERE CALLED TO PICK UP THE VEHICLE. OTHER THAN A VISUAL INSPECTION AND ROAD TEST, TOYOTA HASN'T DONE ANYTHING. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I SHOULD DRIVE THIS VEHICLE ON THE ROAD BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT TOYOTA IS TELLING ME TO DO.*AK

NHTSA ID
10072982
Incident
May 12, 2004
Mileage
39,000 mi
BrakesSteeringSuspension
Filed Feb 7, 2003
Crash reported1 injury reported

AS I WAS DRIVING DOWN A 4 LANE HIGHWAY, THE STEERING WHEEL SUDDENLY JERKED OUT OF MY HANDS TO THE RIGHT. I WAS UNABLE TO TURN THE STEERING WHEEL BACK TO THE LEFT TO CORRECT. THE ROADS WERE WET FROM AN EARLIER RAIN; THERE WAS NO STANDING WATER, NO POT HOLES, OR OTHER VISIBLE DEFECTS IN THE ROAD. I WAS IN THE LEFT LANE, TRAVELING ABOUT 60MPH. THE CAR SPUN OUT OF CONTROL - DOING 2 COMPLETE SPINS ON THE HIGHWAY, THEN INTO THE DITCH ON THE RIGHT; HITTING TREES, FLIPPING, HITTING MORE TREES, AND FINALLY COMING TO A HALT STRADDLING THE DITCH PERPENDICULAR TO THE HIGHWAY. SINCE THERE WAS NO VISIBLE DEFECTS IN THE ROAD THAT WOULD HAVE CAUSED THE STEERING TO ACT LIKE THAT, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS ANY MECHANICAL PROBLEM WHICH WOULD HAVE CAUSED THE STEERING WHEEL TO JERK SO HARD TO THE RIGHT AND KEEP ME FROM BEING ABLE TO CORRECT IT. I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT PERHAPS THE FRONT RIGHT BRAKE LOCKED UP, THE TIE ROD BROKE, OR SOME KIND OF STEERING DEFECT. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT I SHOULD LOOK FOR.

NHTSA ID
10005490
Incident
Dec 31, 2002
Mileage
59,000 mi
Brakes
Filed Jan 10, 2003

ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS WHILE DRIVING IN SNOWY CONDITIONS, THE BRAKES FAILED TO STOP THE VEHICLE. EACH FAILURE OCCURED AFTER THE VEHICLE HAD BEEN DRIVEN SEVERAL MILES. WHEN BRAKES ARE APPLIED THERE IS A GRINDING NOISE. DEALERSHIP SUGGESTED THAT THE METALLIC BRAKES MAY BE WORN TOO SMOOTH, BUT COULD NOT PINPOINT PROBLEM. *TT *JB

NHTSA ID
10001922
Mileage
25,000 mi
BrakesTires & wheels
Filed Dec 12, 2002

TIRES: THE TIRES DID NOT PHYSICALLY FAIL, HOWEVER AFTER ONLY 10,000 MILES, THEY WERE PRACTICALLY BALD - ALL 4. I REQUESTED THAT THE DEALER REPLACE THE TIRES WHICH THEY REFUSED TO DO ALTHOUGHT THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE TIRES WERE DANGEROUSLY WORN. THE SERVICE TECHNICIAN INFORMED ME "OFF THE RECORD" THAT THEY KNEW THIS TO BE A PROBLEM WITH THE VEHICLE - THAT THE TIRES WHICH CAME "STOCK" FROM THE FACTORY WERE IN FACT "TOO SMALL" TO BEAR THE WEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE. IN LIGHT OF THE SAFETY ISSUES REGARDING BRIDGESTONE?FIRESTONE AT THAT TIME, I ELECTED TO REPLACE ALL 4 TIRES AT MY COST. TAIL LIGHTS: THE TAILLIGHTS BEGAN FAILING VERY SHORTLY AFTER I PURCHASED THE VEHICLE. WHENEVER I TOOK IT INTO THE DEALER, THEY INFORMED ME THAT IT WAS JUST A BURNED OUT LAMP WHICH WAS NOT COVERED BY MY WARRANTY. THIS HAS CONTINUED TO OCCUR AND NOW I DON'T EVEN BOTHER WITH THE DEALER. I HAVE NOTED NUMEROUS 4RUNNERS ON THE ROAD WITH THE SAME PROBLEM WHICH IS WHAT PROMPTED ME TO CHECK YOUR WEB SITE. AT ONE POINT THE SERVICE MANAGER AT THE DEALERSHIP MENTIONED HIS SUPRISE THAT "THE WARNING INDICATOR LIGHT DID NOT COME ON" WHEN THE LAMP WENT OUT. APPARENTLY THERE IS AN INDICATOR LIGHT THAT SHOULD ALERT THE DRIVER TO A BLOWN BULB...I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE AND MINE HAS GONE OUT 3 TIMES. NOW IT IS HABIT FOR ME TO CHECK MY TAIL LIGHTS WHENEVER I DRIVE AT NIGHT. BRAKES: ON VARIOUS OCCASIONS, I HAVE EXPERIENCED A SEVERE "SHUDDERING" OF THE CAR AND A LOUD "CLANKING" NOISE WHEN GOING FROM HIGH SPEED TO LOWER SPEED (NOT SUDDEN BRAKING) AS IN EXITING THE HIGHWAY . ONE TIME, THE CAR WAS SHUDDERING SO VIOLENTLY THAT IT JERKED INTO ANOTHER LANE. THE DEALER BASICALLY TOLD ME I WAS IMAGINING THINGS. THIS SHUDDERING HAS OCCURRED ON 3 SEPARATE OCCASIONS AND EACH TIME I RETURNED THE CAR TO THE DEALER AND WAS TOLD THERE WAS NO PROBLEM. ONE TIME, THEY AGREED TO MANUALLY CHECK ALL 4 BRAKES - AT MY COST AND DECLARED THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG. I HESITATE TO DRIVE IN SLIPPERY CONDITIONS. TS

NHTSA ID
770752
Brakes
Filed Nov 8, 2002

THE TRUCK IS EQUIPPED WITH ABS BRAKES THAT WHEN BEING DRIVEN IN SNOWY CONDITIONS, THE BRAKE SYSTEM PERFORMS ERRATIC. THE OWNER STATES THAT HE WOULD HEAR SOME SORT OF HUMMING SOUND BUT THE TRUCK CONTINUES FORWARD. THE TOYOTA DEALERSHIP DID EVALUATE THE BRAKES BUT NO CAUSE OF PERFORMANCE WAS ACKNOWLEDGED. PLEASE DESCRIBE DETAILS TS

NHTSA ID
8022507
Brakes
Filed Nov 6, 2002

WHILE DRIVING 45 MPH HAD EXTENDED STOPPING AND BRAKES VIBRATED WHEN APPLIED. *MR FRONT BRAKE ROTORS WERE WARPED AND HAD TO BE REPLACED. CONSUMER FEELS THIS HAPPENED PREMATURELY. *TT

NHTSA ID
8022252
Incident
Oct 17, 2002
Mileage
42,000 mi
Brakes
Filed Aug 15, 2002

FRONT WHEELS WOULD LOCK UP WHEN BRAKES ARE APPLIED IN A SUDDEN STOP ON WET CONDITION ROAD. APPOINTMENT HAS BEEN MADE FOR THE DEALER. FEEL FREE TO PROVIDE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION.*AK

NHTSA ID
8016393
Incident
May 15, 2002
AirbagsBrakes
Filed Jul 9, 2002
Crash reported1 injury reported

WHILE DRIVING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS IT BECAME NECESSARY TO TAKE EVASIVE MANEUVERS. WHEN I SLAMMED ON THE BRAKES I DID NOT FEEL THE ABS ENGAGE. I LOST CONTROL OF THE VEHICLE AND HIT A GUARDRAIL. WHEN THIS OCCURRED THE VEHICLE ROLLED FRONT OVER BACK AND THE AIRBAGS NEVER DEPLOYED. THIS CONCERNED ME. HOW CAN A VEHICLE ROLL OVER AND THE AIRBAGS NEVER DEPLOY?*AK

NHTSA ID
763982
Incident
Jun 25, 2002
Brakes
Filed Jan 23, 2002

THE ENTIRE VEHICLE EXPERIENCES SEVERE SHAKING/VIBRATION WHEN BRAKING. THE PROBLEM IS PARTICULARLY PRONOUNCED WHEN BRAKING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS. *YD

NHTSA ID
564068
Brakes
Filed Sep 12, 2000

DEALER FAILED TO REPLACE DEFECTIVE FRONT DISC BRAKE PARTS DUE TO LACK OF PARTS AVAILABILITY FROM TOYOTA. VEHICLE CONTINUES TO SHAKE WHEN THE BRAKES ARE APPLIED DOWNHILL. *AK

NHTSA ID
731210
Incident
Jun 20, 2000
Brakes
Filed Aug 23, 2000

PREMATURE WARE OF BRAKE PADS AND ROTORS. DEALER HAS REPLACED THE PADS AND THE ROTORS.*AK

NHTSA ID
868454
BrakesPowertrain (other)
Filed Jul 12, 2000

BRAKES VIBRATE BADLY BUT ONLY ONCE IN A WHILE. AFTER COMING TO A COMPLETE STOP THE REAR AXLE OR REAR END CLUNKS BADLY WHEN RELEASING THE BRAKES, TIRE HAVE CUPPED PREMATURELY EVEN THOUGH BALANCED AND ALIGNED, GAS GAUGE WORKS MOST OF THE TIME BUT SOMETIMES IS INCORRECT BY AS MUCH AS 50%. ABS KICKS IN EVEN WHEN ON DRY PAVEMENT. *AK( DOT NUMBER: W@HH TIRE SIZE: P225/75R15 )

NHTSA ID
725352

Higher-selling and older vehicles accumulate more reports. Counts are not failure rates and are not directly comparable between vehicles that sold in very different numbers.

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