Interior & seats
Filed May 4, 2018
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2006 FORD FUSION. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE FRONT AND REAR DRIVER SIDE DOORS FAILED TO OPEN FROM INSIDE THE VEHICLE. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT DIAGNOSED OR REPAIRED BY A LOCAL DEALER. THE MANUFACTURER WAS MADE AWARE OF THE FAILURE AND DID NOT ASSIST. THE FAILURE MILEAGE AND VIN WERE UNKNOWN.
- NHTSA ID
- 11091709
- Incident
- May 2, 2018
Interior & seats
Filed May 7, 2015
DRIVER'S SIDE DOOR LATCH - I PAID 448.13 TO HAVE REPAIRED. WHILE TRYING TO DRIVE AND HOLD ON TO DOOR TO KEEP IT FROM OPENING INTO ON-COMING TRAFFIC I COULD HAVE HAD AN ACCIDENT. I HSVE THE NEWS ARTICLE RECALLING FORDS WITH DOOR LATCH PROBLEMS. PLEASE HELP THE LEFT HAND TURN SIGNAL WILL NOT OPERATE AND THE COST TOO REPAIR IS OVER $1000.I AM UNABLE TO HAVE THIS REPAIRED AS I AM RETIRED AND ON A LOW INCOME. *TR.. ..UPDATED 04/13/17 *BF
- NHTSA ID
- 10715128
- Incident
- Oct 22, 2014
- Mileage
- 48,000 mi
ElectricalInterior & seats
Filed Apr 10, 2015
MY BACK DOOR LOCK ON MY DRIVER SIDE STOPPED AUTOMATICALLY LOCKING AND UNLOCKING UNLESS I DO IT MANUALLY. IT WASN'T A HUGE ISSUE SINCE I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY BACKSEAT. LAST NIGHT, WHEN I GOT HOME FROM WORK, I REACHED TO OPEN MY DOOR AND NOTHING HAPPENED. I THOUGHT I WAS TIRED ENOUGH TO BE MISTAKEN, BUT IT HAPPENED. MY DOOR WILL NOW ONLY OPEN FROM THE OUTSIDE. THE LOCK STILL LOCKS AND UNLOCKS AUTOMATICALLY WHEN I USE THE BUTTON, BUT I HAVE TO ROLL DOWN MY WINDOW TO GET OUT. THIS CAN BE HAZARDOUS IF SOMEONE IS LOCKED IN THE CAR DURING A WRECK, FIRE, GAS LEAK, ETC. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10705033
- Incident
- Apr 9, 2015
Interior & seatsOther / unspecified
Filed Aug 25, 2014
I HAD A PASSENGER IN THE REAR PASSENGER SIDE SEAT THAT COULD NOT OPEN THE DOOR TO GET OUT. I HAD TO GO TO THE OUTSIDE DOOR HANDLE TO OPEN THE DOOR. ON INSPECTION IT APPEARS THE INTERIOR REAR DOOR HANDLE HAS STARTED TO CRACK AT THE PIVOT POINT(SPRING RETURN ATTACHMENT POINT). THE BREAK CAUSES INTERFERENCE WITH THE REAR DOOR HANDLE BEZEL AND LIMITS TRAVEL OF DOOR HANDLE (DOOR WON'T OPEN). IT APPEARS THE SAME THING IS STARTING TO HAPPEN ON THE OTHER REAR DOOR. CAR ONLY HAS 85000 MILES. IT APPEARS TO BE A DESIGN/MANUFACTURING DEFECT. I WILL BE GOING TO FORD TO GET A REPLACEMENT WHICH I HOPE HAS HAD A DESIGN CHANGE TO FIX THIS. THE REAR DOORS HAD BEEN USED VERY LITTLE SO ITS NOT A USAGE ISSUE. THIS IS A REAL SAFETY CONCERN FOR REAR PASSENGERS. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10628226
- Incident
- Aug 1, 2014
Body & structureElectricalEngine+2 more
Filed Jul 24, 2014
MOTOR MOUNTS: ALL THREE MOUNTS HAVE BEEN REPLACED. 6 TOTAL. ONE HAS BEEN REPLACED TWICE. ONE THREE TIMES. ELECTRIC DOOR LOCKS & WINDOW REGULATORS: FRONT DRIVER AND REAR RIGHT PASSENGER HAVE FAILED. DRIVER FLOOR MAT: SLIDES. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10616144
- Incident
- Jul 1, 2008
- Mileage
- 38,000 mi
EngineInterior & seatsPowertrain (other)
Filed Jun 22, 2014
WHEN I WAS DRIVING 55 MPH, THE CAR DID A LITTLE JERK LIKE IT HAD MISSED. NO LIGHTS CAME ON AND I DROVE TO THE NEAREST SIDE ROAD OFF THE HIGHWAY AND STOPPED. I TRIED TO GO FURTHER BUT ONLY MADE IT ABOUT 100 YARDS BECAUSE I LOST ALL POWER INCLUDING STEERING. MY CAR WAS HALF IN THE ROAD SO I WAS THANKFUL THIS WAS NOT A HIGH TRAFFIC ROAD. THE ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON AND THERE WAS A SMELL. IT WASN'T THE SMELL OF OIL BUT WAS A FLUID SMELL. THE CAR WOULD NOT TURN OVER AND HAD TO BE TOWED TO THE DEALERSHIP. IT CAME UP AS A MISFIRE 3 AND THEY TOLD ME THAT THEY HAD TO REPLACE THE COIL. THIS DID NOT FIX THE PROBLEM AND THEY SAID THE 3 COIL WHEN IT BLEW IT TOOK OUT THE OTHER COILS AS WELL AS THE 6 SPARK PLUGS AND THE PCM. THIS WAS A $2250 REPAIR. I ONLY HAVE 68,000 ON THE CAR. AFTER READING OTHER TSB, SOME STATED THAT IF UNDER 80,000 MILES/8 YEARS THAT IT WAS COVERED UNDER THE MANUFACTURE WARRANTY. I CALLED FORD AND WAS TOLD I MISSED THE 8 YEAR MARK BY EXACTLY 30 DAYS. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT I COULD DO BUT HOLD ON TO MY RECEIPTS IN CASE THERE WOULD EVER BE A RECALL. THIS IS THE ONLY MAJOR ISSUE I HAVE HAD. I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY OTHER ENGINE ISSUES WITH THE CAR. I'VE ONLY HAD 2 MINOR ISSUES BEFORE THIS AND THEY WERE THE LUMBAR GOING OUT IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT ($300 REPAIR THAT I DID NOT REPLACE) AND 2 DOOR HANDLES BREAKING FROM THE INSIDE THAT WERE $160 TO REPLACE EACH. I DID REPLACE BC OF THE SAFETY ISSUE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO GET OUT OF THE CAR. AFTER READING THE TSB, I SEE THAT THE PCM AND COILS ARE A RECURRING ISSUE AND I AM THANKFUL I WAS ON A SIDE ROAD WHEN IT OCCURRED... I AM VERY WORRIED THAT IT MAY OCCUR AGAIN AND HOPE THIS ISSUES WILL BE OR HAS BEEN LOOKED INTO FOR THE SAFETY OF OTHERS. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10605028
- Incident
- Jun 8, 2014
- Mileage
- 68,000 mi
ElectricalEngineInterior & seats+1 more
Filed May 29, 2014
I HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH IT SINCE I BOUGHT IT, IT HAS PROBLEMS STARTING ESPECIALLY WHEN ITS COLD OUTSIDE. DRIVER HEATED SEAT CAUGHT FIRE AND MELTED MY SEAT, NOW MY HEATED SEAT DOESN'T WORK AND SEAT IS RUINED. TRANSMISSION IS POORLY MADE AND UNSAFE. WHILE DRIVING IT HAS PROBLEMS SHIFTING, SHOOTS THE RPMS ALL THE WAY UP. THE CAR SOUNDS LIKE ITS GOING TO BLOW UP. DOES IT MOSTLY WHEN SHOWING DOWN AND SPEEDING UP. NOT THE ONLY PERSON HAVING ISSUES, FORD NEEDS TO STOP BEING SO CHEAP AND RECALL THE 2006 HTTP://REPAIRPAL.COM/TRANSMISSION-PROBLEM-242. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10594719
- Incident
- Dec 19, 2013
- Mileage
- 116,000 mi
Driver assistanceInterior & seats
Filed Sep 18, 2013
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2006 FORD FUSION. THE CONTACT STATED THAT WHILE DRIVING 60 MPH, THE VEHICLE DECELERATED TO 20 MPH INDEPENDENTLY. THE WRENCH WARNING ICON ILLUMINATED AFTER THE FAILURE OCCURRED. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE MECHANIC WHERE A DIAGNOSTIC WAS PERFORMED, WHICH LOCATED THE FAILURE AT THE THROTTLE. THE THROTTLE WAS NOT REPLACED. IN ADDITION, THE DOOR LOCKS ON THE REAR DRIVER'S SIDE DOOR AND THE FRONT PASSENGER'S SIDE DOOR FAILED. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT REPAIRED. THE VIN WAS NOT AVAILABLE. THE MANUFACTURER WAS NOT MADE AWARE OF THE FAILURE. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS NOT AVAILABLE.
- NHTSA ID
- 10544213
- Incident
- Nov 1, 2012
Interior & seats
Filed Aug 31, 2013
OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, ONE BY ONE, EVERY DOOR LATCH OR LOCK HAS BROKEN. IN 2008 I EXPERIENCED A JAMMING OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR LATCH SO I WAS UNABLE TO SHUT THE DOOR, REQUIRING THE DRIVER TO HOLD THE DOOR SHUT WITH ONE HAND WHILE DRIVING (AN OBVIOUS SAFETY RISK). THIS WAS REPAIRED, BUT AGAIN BROKE IN 2012, AND THE DOOR WAS ONLY ABLE TO BE OPENED FROM THE OUTSIDE. LATCH WAS REPLACED (PAID PRIVATELY). HAD SIMILAR INCIDENTS WITH ALL OTHER DOORS, PLUS PEELING SILVER TAPE FROM PLASTIC LATCH HANDLES. LATEST INCIDENT WAS 8/30/13. RIGHT REAR PASSENGER DOOR IS ABLE TO BE OPENED FROM THE INSIDE, BUT CAN'T BE OPENED FROM THE OUTSIDE. *JS
- NHTSA ID
- 10538202
- Incident
- May 14, 2008
- Mileage
- 25,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Sep 27, 2012
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2006 FORD FUSION. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE VEHICLE INTERIOR DOOR HANDLES ON ALL FOUR DOORS WERE BROKEN AND AS A RESULT, THE DOORS COULD ONLY BE OPENED FROM THE OUTSIDE. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALER WHO STATED THAT THE VEHICLE WAS NOT UNDER WARRANTY AND OFFERED NO ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE. THE MANUFACTURER WAS NOT NOTIFIED OF THE FAILURE. THE VIN WAS NOT AVAILABLE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 90,000 AND THE CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 97,000.
- NHTSA ID
- 10477236
- Incident
- May 11, 2012
- Mileage
- 90,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Jul 9, 2012
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2006 FORD FUSION. THE CONTACT STATED THAT OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR, THREE OF THE DOOR HANDLES BROKE. THE TWO REAR DOOR HANDLES WOULD STILL LOCK, DESPITE NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY. THE DRIVER'S SIDE DOOR WOULD NOT LOCK. THE DEALER AND MANUFACTURER WERE BOTH NOTIFIED, BUT OFFERED NO ASSISTANCE. THE VEHICLE HAD NOT BEEN REPAIRED. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE 80,000.
- NHTSA ID
- 10464780
- Incident
- Aug 1, 2011
- Mileage
- 80,000 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed Jul 9, 2012
DRIVER SIDE INTERIOR DOOR LATCH BROKEN. CAN NOT LOCK CAR WITH KEY FOB. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10464779
- Incident
- Jun 1, 2012
- Mileage
- 125,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Jul 2, 2012
PLEASE FILE UNDER *LATCHES/LOCKS/LINKAGES* PARKED VEHICLE. ATTEMPTED TO EXIT. DRIVER'S SIDE. HEARD REPEATED SOUND OF LOCK ACTUATOR CLICKING 3+ TIMES. HAD TO MANUALLY FORCE HANDLE AND MANUAL LOCK ABOVE HANDLE OPEN AND UNLOCK DOOR WITH REMOTE TO EXIT VEHICLE. TOOK APPROXIMATELY 3 MINUTES TO EXIT VEHICLE. UPON REENTERING VEHICLE AND RETURNING HOME, REMOTE LOCK WORKS OCCASIONALLY WITH HALF THE TIME THE ACTUAL LOCK MECHANISM PREVENTS DOOR FROM BEING LOCKED. THIS ISSUE IS IDENTICAL TO ALL OF THE OTHER 24 POSTS IN THIS CATEGORY. SHOULD ALSO BE NOTED THAT ALL FOUR DOOR HANDLES AND MANUAL LOCKS EXHIBIT SAME "PAINT DELAMINATION" OF CHROME-COLORED SURFACES. VEHICLE PURCHASED AS CPO IN 2011 AT 58,000 MILES. NOW HAS 74,200 MOSTLY INTERSTATE MILES. FORD SHOULD ADDRESS THIS ISSUE AS IT APPEARS THROUGH RESEARCH TO BE PRETTY WIDE-SPREAD ON THESE VEHICLES. THIS WOULD BE A SAFETY ISSUE IN EVENT THAT AN EMERGENCY/RAPID EXIT IS REQUIRED. THIS WOULD BE A SECURITY ISSUE AS VEHICLE DOESN'T PROPERLY LOCK ALL THE TIME. *JS
- NHTSA ID
- 10463948
- Incident
- Jul 1, 2012
- Mileage
- 74,200 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed Dec 28, 2011
SINCE WE'VE OWNED OUR 2006 FORD FUSION WE HAVE HAD TO REPLACE THE DOOR HANDLE FOR THE PASSENGER AND BOTH BACK PASSENGER SEATS MULTIPLE TIMES. ONCE THESE HANDLES FAIL (RANDOMLY WITH NO WARNING) THEY CANNOT BE OPERATED FROM THE INSIDE. THIS REQUIRES GETTING SOMEONE TO OPEN THE DOOR FROM THE OUTSIDE. WE FEAR THAT IN AN ACCIDENT WE MIGHT BECOME TRAPPED. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT I'M NOT ALONE WITH THIS ISSUE WITH OUR 2006 FUSION, BUT FORD HAS YET TO RECALL THESE OBVIOUSLY DEFECTIVE PARTS. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10441552
- Incident
- Aug 10, 2009
- Mileage
- 30,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Aug 26, 2011
ALL FOUR OF THE DOOR HANDLES NEED TO BE OR HAVE BEEN REPLACED. THEY ARE CRACKING WHERE YOU PULL THEM TO OPEN THE DOOR. I HAD THE FRONT DRIVER SIDE REPLACED THE FIRST YEAR I HAD OWNED THE CAR, IT WAS UNDER WARRANTY SO FORD REPLACED IT FREE OF CHARGE. THE TWO BACK AND SIDE PASSENGER IS NOT UNDER WARRANTY, AND OF COURSE I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. THE CAR HAD ABOUT 50,000 MILES ON IT WHEN THIS HAPPENED. *TT
- NHTSA ID
- 10421619
- Incident
- Mar 1, 2008
- Mileage
- 50,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Jul 31, 2011
DRIVERS DOOR INTERIOR HANDLE INOPERATIVE, NOT ALLOWING DOOR TO BE OPENED FROM INSIDE THE VEHICLE. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10416391
- Incident
- Jul 29, 2011
- Mileage
- 64,420 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Jul 29, 2011
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2006 FORD FUSION. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE REAR DRIVER AND PASSENGER SIDE DOOR HANDLES WERE FRACTURED TO THE POINT WHERE THE METAL BEGAN PEELING OFF. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT INSPECTED BY THE DEALER NOR WAS IT REPAIRED. THE MANUFACTURER WAS CONTACTED BUT OFFERED NO ASSISTANCE. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS APPROXIMATELY 37,000.
- NHTSA ID
- 10416258
- Incident
- Jul 29, 2009
- Mileage
- 37,000 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed Jul 20, 2011
APPROXIMATELY 3 YEARS AFTER PURCHASE, CHROME COVERING ON INTERIOR DOOR HANDLES STARTED PEELING. IN NOVEMBER, 2010, THE REAR PASSENGER INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE SNAPPED. PIECES FELL OUT AND THE DOOR CANNOT BE OPENED FROM THE INSIDE. IN MARCH 2011, THE DRIVERS SIDE REAR INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE ALSO SNAPPED. ALTHOUGH THE DOORS CAN STILL BE LOCKED BY THE REMOTE, THEY HAVE TO BE OPENED FROM THE OUT SIDE. THIS IS AN EXTREME SAFETY ISSUE IN THE EVENT THAT SOMEONE NEEDS TO EXIT THE CAR QUICKLY. I HAVE READ THOUSANDS OF SIMILAR COMPLAINTS ON-LINE. THE DEALER GAVE ME A QUOTE TO REPAIR BUT I DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS. THE DEALER DID SEND AN INQUIRY TO FORD ON MY BEHALF BUT WE HAVE HEARD NOTHING BACK. FORD NEEDS TO OWN UP TO THIS AND DO A RECALL. *KB
- NHTSA ID
- 10413676
- Incident
- Nov 8, 2010
- Mileage
- 30,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Jul 11, 2011
ALL OF THE INTERIOR DOOR HANDLES ON MY 2006 FUSION WITH 72000 MILES HAVE CRACKED AND ARE BREAKING. NORMAL USE, BUT THE HANDLES ARE MADE OF AN INFERIOR PLASTIC WITH CHROME COLORED COATING. THE RESULT IS THAT ONCE BREAKAGE OCCURS, DOORS ARE ONLY ABLE TO BE OPENED USING THE OUTSIDE HANDLE AND DOOR LOCKS HAVE TO BE MANUALLY ENGAGED. I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT ABILITY TO EXIT THE CAR IF IN AN ACCIDENT. *TT
- NHTSA ID
- 10411733
- Incident
- Jul 10, 2011
- Mileage
- 72,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Jun 28, 2011
2006 FORD FUSIONS DOOR HANDLES SNAPPING AND STOPPING THE DRIVER FROM BEING ABLE TO OPEN DOOR FROM INSIDE. IF THERE IS A CRASH YOU CAN'T GET OUT. THERE ARE 100'S OF OTHER EXPERIENCING THE SAME PROBLEM IF YOU RESEARCH IT ON THE INTERNET, IT APPEARS TO BE A COMMON PROBLEM ON THE 2006 MODELS. PLEASE ENCOURAGE A RECALL SO THIS SAFETY ISSUE CAN BE ADDRESSED. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10409264
- Incident
- Apr 10, 2011
- Mileage
- 70,000 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed Jun 3, 2011
2006 FORD FUSION SE - 4 CYL. 4-DOOR. INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE BROKEN DUE TO POOR DESIGN OF PLASTIC LINKAGE. INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE ASSEMBLY REPLACEMENT REQUIRED. THIS ALLOWS NO LOCKAGE OF DRIVER DOOR AND IS LEADING TOWARDS DRIVER DOOR LIKELY NOT OPENING FROM INSIDE. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10404298
- Incident
- May 15, 2011
- Mileage
- 36,000 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed May 6, 2011
REAR DRIVERS SIDE INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE BROKE IN HALF, DRIVERS LUMBAR SEAT STOPPED FUNCTIONING. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10399391
- Incident
- Oct 18, 2008
- Mileage
- 38,000 mi
Interior & seats
Filed Apr 14, 2011
TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2006 FORD FUSION. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE FRONT DRIVER SIDE DOOR COULD NOT BE UNLOCKED FROM THE INTERIOR, ONLY FROM THE EXTERIOR WITH THE USE OF THE KEY. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE DOOR COULD STILL BE OPENED FROM THE INTERIOR JUST NOT UNLOCKED. THE VEHICLE WAS NOT TAKEN TO THE DEALER FOR REPAIRS. THE APPROXIMATE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 45,000.
- NHTSA ID
- 10395935
- Incident
- Apr 1, 2010
- Mileage
- 45,000 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed Mar 24, 2011
THE INTERIOR FRONT DRIVERS SIDE AND REAR DRIVER SIDE DOOR HANDLES HAD FRACTURED. IN ORDER FOR PASSENGERS TO EXIT THE VEHICLE, THE WINDOW WOULD HAVE TO BE OPENED AND THE PASSENGER WOULD HAVE TO PUT THEIR ARM OUT TO OPEN THE DOOR, THIS TO ME IS A SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE!!! *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10392783
- Incident
- Oct 11, 2010
- Mileage
- 62,000 mi
Body & structureInterior & seats
Filed Feb 17, 2011
IN VERY NORMAL, IF NOT GENTLE USE THE INTERIOR DOOR HANDLES ON OUR 2006 FORD FUSION ALL BROKE IN THE LATTER PART OF 2010, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE DRIVERS SIDE REAR DOOR. THE CAR HAS APPROX. 68,000 MILES ON IT AND IS A KNOWN DEFECTIVE PART THAT HAS BROKEN IN THOUSANDS OF THESE CARS AS CAN BE RESEARCHED. THE ONLY WAY ONE CAN EXIT THE VEHICLE IS TO LEAVE THE CAR RUNNING AND OPEN THE WINDOW WHILE REACHING OUTSIDE TO USE THE OUTER DOOR HANDLE, THEN OPEN THE DOOR AND ROLL THE WINDOW BACK UP AND THEN SHUT OFF THE CAR. THIS PRESENTS A SERIOUS SAFETY HAZARD WHEN THE OCCUPANTS MIGHT HAVE TO EXIT THE VEHICLE QUICKLY TO AVOID IMMINENT DANGER. AFTER PAYING CLOSE TO $6,000 FOR EXTENDED WARRANTIES, THE DEALERSHIP REFUSED TO OFFER REPLACEMENT OF ANY SORT, STATING THAT THERE HAD BEEN NO SAFETY RECALLS ON THIS ISSUE. I HAVE NEVER BEEN UNABLE TO EXIT A CAR NORMALLY AND THIS TRULY COULD BE A DEADLY ISSUE THAT THE MANUFACTURER SHOULD CONSIDER THE RAMIFICATIONS OF TURNING A BLIND EYE TO. *TR
- NHTSA ID
- 10383036
- Incident
- Feb 4, 2011
- Mileage
- 68,700 mi
Higher-selling and older vehicles accumulate more reports. Counts are not failure rates and are not directly comparable between vehicles that sold in very different numbers.